bathed in the opposite of sex!

[starfrosting]

It may be caused by the bathing of a fetus by opposite birth sex hormones while in utero, or perhaps by some spontaneous genetic mutation, which is also one of the theories of the origin of homosexuality. (from the pflag website)

I read that and said, Ugh. But then I thought, I'd like to hear from folks who are proponents of brain-sex theories of gender variance. I'd also like to hear from people who don't think transsexuality et al are caused by these direct biological factors. Also if anyone has any thought-provoking resources you should leave that as a comment too. It's probably pretty clear where I stand on it but I wanna hear other opinions regardless.

Comments

[kaiaroo.livejournal.com]

yeah i actually do feel has though there was a chemical action that went "wrong" when i was developing in the womb. i should not have been pumped full of T while growing up.

however, i do not think that anything like that is what made me queer as fuck when it comes to sexual orientation.

[orpheuskiss.livejournal.com]

when i'm back at school (or can get to my stuff) i can give you a shit-ton of research papers on the origins of GID, since i did an independent study on it last year. but the hormones-in-utero is only one of the "biological" theories. there are others that have to do with brain structure differentiation and early childhood environment. most people think gender variance is partially external environment and socialization and partially genetics/hormones/brain structure/whatever - if they think there's no environmental interaction that goes into it at all they're not being scientific. so ya...

[starfrosting.livejournal.com]

Yeah word. I actually would like to read some of that "shit-ton" of papers at some point. Maybe on the plane to Amsterdam, haha. I guess I just feel kinda dumb about it, because I have this immediate aversion to thinking of it as biologically-determined...since that seems to rest on foundationalist categories of man and woman, for one...but then I feel fucked up cos obviously these biologist explanations really fit for a lot of transexual people, and who am I to go on a gut "well that sounds kinda problematic" hunch? (I just woke up so I'm sorry if this is incomprehensible.) I think a main problem with what I understand of brain sex theories is that there's this implicit assumption that binary, sex-congruent gender is totally natural, and any 'deviation' from that is the result of some biological flaw.

[orpheuskiss.livejournal.com]

as soon as i can get at all the research (it's all in MA) i'll lend them to you.

there are a lot of categories that go into determining sex, so although making "man" and "woman" into universal categories is helpful for statistics, most people doing research in the sex/gender area agree that it isn't so simple.

i hear you on the gut level reaction - part of my reason for liking the biological explanations are that they completely fit for me. aside from being a queer femme, i'm pretty much a textbook tranny - i was suicidal for my entire life until i started hormones and was almost totally stable after only a month or so on them, i lived as a butch lesbian before coming out, i had childhood GID etc. before i came out, i was sent to therapy to try and "fix" it. i know my gender identity changed the way i interacted with people and the way they interacted with me, but i don't think i'll ever be convinced that gender identity is purely socialization.

also - food for thought - geniuses are statistically rare and could be thought of as a biological flaw (not to liken trans folks and geniuses or anything *heh heh*).

[majorlaw.livejournal.com]

I spoke with my dad about the chemical theories explaining the variety of trans variations. I don't know if I buy it or not, as there seems to be so much more that can happen during childhood/young adulthood/etc to open someone's mind to experimenting with gender. I suppose you could put me square in the psychological development camp, although I'm interested in seeing more scientific background. My father holds on to the rather romantic notion that some people are just meant to be trans, and that you can document it through the history of different cultures; the whole "gendered soul" theory

[starfrosting.livejournal.com]

I guess I have problems with the romantic version too, lol, which is annoying cos that's a lot of what I find when I try to talk with other Pagan folks about it.

I guess maybe I could make a distinction, and own up to the fact that biological theories probably make a lot of sense to trans folks who have been trans since childhood, etc, while for me as someone whom that narrative does not fit it doesn't make much sense at all.

Also this may be totally inappropriate, but at some point if you're comfortable talking about it I'd really like to know how yr parents came to deal w/yr sibling's transness. If they are dealing with it, which judging by yr daddy-o's comment sounds about right.

[majorlaw.livejournal.com]

No worries, I'm totally comfortable with sharing about my family. Are you much of a letter writer? I think it might be a fun correspondance to do via typewriter and sharpie.

[starfrosting.livejournal.com]

Yes! I'm actually trying to become a letterwriter once again. My address at home is 148 E Dark Hollow Rd, Pipersville PA, 18947. Cannot wait for the correspondence to fly :).

[worldwalkerdc.livejournal.com]

When researchers can show consistent gender concepts, roles, and behaviors across a multitude of cultures, then I might think biology has something to do with gender variance.

Until then...

W

[starfrosting.livejournal.com]

And I don't think I would want them to 'find' universalist principles of gender.

So til then...
peace,
O

[worldwalkerdc.livejournal.com]

I'd be really pissed if there was some attempt at pseudo-scientific discovery of culturally-universal gender traits and behaviors. The concept is so ridiculous! Insults my 200-level anthropological training.

[starfrosting.livejournal.com]

Ha-ha!
I wish you didn't live so far, because I feel like we could have some kick-ass conversations. Happy Solstice and take care.

[taxishoes.livejournal.com]

Today I was watching (and capturing clips of) this video about intersex stuff. (It's on isna.org, it's the "Is it a boy or a girl?" one.)

It was really fascinating but also made me think things like, "Okay, so this guy Alberto always knew he was a guy and oh, look, they have traced this hormone starting to be processed differently when he was twelve, which shifted his physical development and identity to be male. Hmm. Okay, so . . . really, if they want to, scientists can come up with biological reasons for all of these gender things."

So what if my gender thing has no biological basis? Could they (theoretically, in the future) test for that, and inform me whether or not this is real? Or would me thinking it's real inform them that they just haven't explained everything yet?

I don't think, in my case, that it has a biological origin. [enter all of the fucked up things I think about why I have issues around gender] So obviously, I need to be cured. There is no biological origin, I am just psycho.