(no subject)

[starfrosting]

It gets rather confusing when I stop to trace the trickling lines that attraction scratches across my skin, little rivulets of my blood and want and scars, the magnetism of gender pulling between the ions of my body. I've been thinking a lot about how Kate Bornstein's order to "become what you desire" may have really fucked me up.

I am incredibly attracted to butch women. Here's Tristan Taormino's quote that pretty much sums it up for:

I love butch girls. Girls with slick, shiny, barbershop haircuts, trimmed so short your fingertips can barely grip it. Girls with shirts that button the other way. Girls that swagger. Girls who have dicks made of flesh and silicone and latex and magic. Girls who get stared at in the ladies' room, girls who shop in the boys department, girls who live every moment looking like they weren't supposed to. Girls with hands that touch me like they have been exploring my body their entire lives. Girls who have big cocks, love blowjobs, and like to fuck girls hard. It is the girls that get called sir every day who make me catch my breath, the girls with strong jaws who buckle my knees, the girls who are a different gender who make me want to lay down for them.

In fact, one night I was discussing which women I find attractive here at school with the Lesbian Mafia (aka Rugby Dykes) and they teased me about the fact that everyone I mentioned is butch. The thing of it is, I've been looking more quote unquote "butch" lately (not to imply that butch is simply an aesthetic, of course--). I learned how to swagger back in my skinchick days, and as I type now I'm wearing that same white tank and boots. And i do take pride in Hannah's tag for me: "the girliest butch I've ever met," and Hayden's nickname of "Butcholive." Of course, Danielle used to say I'm femme. Obviously I'm neither, not part of the butch/femme dynamic, if people have such widely divergent ideas of what I am. Or maybe I'm both, or one in one instance and another in another and something completely different most of the time. At any rate, it's interesting that my "Vassar straight" friend Hannah, who's pretty girly, interprets my dykeyness as butch masculinity filtered through pink, Hayden picks up on what I'm so attracted to I want to become, and Danielle, well, picked up on my incredibly gay lavender-and-silver toothbrush.

I guess what I'm wondering is: have I pulled butch qualities into my presentation inadvertently? Would most butch women see me and write me off? How subjective are these interpretations of lesbian gender?

Also...sex. Right now hardly anything (okay, nothing) gets me hotter than the thought of a studly butch fucking me senseless. But it's not like I always conceive of myself as "the fuckee"---it just becomes complicated, cos when the women that make me want to strap and bend them over aren't butch. Obviously this is charged and sorta problematic- some butches flip, so-called femininity shouldn't be equated with penetrability, and why this dualistic thing in the first place?- but yknow, it's true right now. I think that when I like to feel dominant is also, coincidentally, when I can feel like the Dyke, so suave and skilled that pretty girlies give themselves to me and I take what they offer up and give hands mouth power in return.

Like I said, it's really, really confusing. Any thoughts and dialogue are much appreciated---just post a comment and I'll get back.

Now I have to get ready to make challah so it has time to rise before sundown. Good shabbos in advance.

Comments

[corium.livejournal.com]

liv, just read your letter so this is fabulously current in my head. this whole butch/femme thing... i understand what you're saying about it *not* being about gender - at least not male/female - but what i'm wondering is do you think the lesbian community is possibly putting too much emphasis on these two "roles" right now? things i've read have kind of implied that the roles weren't as prevalent in the past (i'm not sure exactly when, maybe the 70s? - and was that only because of the fierce feminism going on and women not feeling like they *could* be acting out male/female and still be feminists? you know a lot more about history than me, so i'm just kinda going off things i've *heard*) so do you think their emphasis now is good or bad for women? like you're saying that butch women might overlook you due to appearing too butch. does the fact that you can only be one thing to each woman bother you? because i think of you as both - femme/butch female/male submissive/dominant (i picture my liv in a vintage dress boots and a short haircut in my head) and it sounds like you'd like to be *able* to be both in a sexual relationship. so... i don't know... do you think women are forced into a femme/butch dynamic role-playing thing because their appearance needs to tell everyone whether they're dominant or submissive? you've said that femme/butch-ness comes from within and what someone's more comfortable with, but what about all the women that aren't really feeling like either male or female or top or bottom? maybe i just hear too much about butch femme and am missing all those in-between women out there?

basically, if you need to *look* one way to get a partner, even if in the actual sex act you can be either, is that limiting who you end up with?

blah. that was long-winded. as me, a woman living with a man with um, curiosity, and you as a fresh new out-in-the-world womenlover, i like to feed off your experience to figure things out better in my head. plus all this practice in case i break out of my restricting heterosexual roles and realize i really am a strong proud womenloving... blank. (ha)

[corium.livejournal.com]

ps it's interesting this idea of being what you desire because though a butch/butch sexual relationship is possible, it seems to not be the "norm" to be with a partner who appears to be the same role as you. i'm wondering if the author of the book you mentioned was saying this (being what you desire) as positive thing or a negative? like are you molding yourself falsely into what you admire or are you really embracing parts of yourself that you *truly* are regardless of roles?

i love jess zimmerman, and her ideas.

[starfrosting.livejournal.com]

[Jess, I'm gonna reply to you here cos, well, I don't know, cos I can.]
Okay, so the first thing you brought up about the lack of butch/femme visibility (and perhaps popularity) during the 70s---the thing is, butch/femme women were made to feel like they weren't truegood PC lesbians because who they were and what they did was perceived as role-playing that lacked the mutuality that lesbian feminists were looking for. And butch/femme existed way before the 70s, so this sort of rejection from 'the lesbian community' was, I imagine, pretty jarring. (Though it's complicated by the fact that some butches aren't exactly woman-identified, and so may not relate to the label 'lesbian,' and of course trans stuff complicates it. Anyway...) So do I think butchfemme is emphasized in current queer stuff? Yeah, I think it's becoming more visible again. And I think it's good for butch/femme people. As far as for me...I think since I've become aware of so-called roles like bottom, top, butch, femme it's just given me really new ways to think about power dynamics.
And yer right, the fact that I might appear as only one thing to someone does bother me, in part because my gemini self isn't just one thing. You pegged it when you pictured me as "both." I don't think women are forced into a b/f dynamic by a need to signal dominance or submission, in part because top and bottom don't necessarily match up to butch and femme.
As far as Kate Bornstein's thing about "becoming what you desire"...I honestly don't exactly remember what hir point was. It's in My Gender Workbook in the section about gender and attraction and sex, and I think hir point may have been exactly about embracing those parts of yrself that are at the boundaries, that don't fit neatly into categories, that you've eroticized in other people...Hir whole thing, of course, is to "find where gender isn't and go there," or something to that effect, so---
I'm totally rambling too much, so let's continue this through email or letters. And, like normal people (grin), let's shoot the shit about trivial things too.
(heart)

[enchanteddesert.livejournal.com]

Your honesty and candidness is a refreshing slap in the face. This school is more conservative about sexuality than PaliHigh (if you can believe that). I know a few gay boys (no girls) and none of them will even hold hands with their boyfriends in public or on campus. Last year a "butch-looking" lesbian (or was it a "feminine-looking" homosexual) was horribly beaten by a bunch of fucking hick kids. I was shocked and disheartened to realize what a conservative school and student body this is that exists in what appears to be a progressive state on paper. I looked foreward to exploring my own views/feelings on sexuality and experimentation at college, but it is so taboo and unaccepted that I keep most of my words to myself. Sometimes I speak up in my women's studies/sex & gender class, but am mostly met with puzzled or disgusted looks when I spout the opinion that it's OKAY to be bi/tran/or homosexual. That concept boggles or infuriates a large portion of the students here. When I read your open rumination and feelings about your own sexuality, it gives me faith and reminds me that there are modern, intelligent, articulate people out there (although on the other side of the country) that are fucking honest about their deepest desires. You rip open the curtain and expose yourself and by doing so give less power to the close-minded fucks out there, and give hope to people like me who aren't exposed to that on a regular basis. Ahh...it feels like lathering up in a hot shower with peppermint soap. Clear my mind, open my breathing, and leave me with a warm good feeling inside. Thanks Liv.

mmm, peppermint shower-

[starfrosting.livejournal.com]

Lisamoo, thanks so much for telling me about that shit at yr school. I can't imagine how you must feel being in a place more close-minded re: sexuality than even our dear old high school. I am glad that you voice yr opinion in class and stick yr neck out there; this doesn't just make me respect you even more, but it makes me feel supported in a weird sort of way. It's really hard to realize that there's retribution for sexual and/or gender variance, like, yknow, death or beating. It's also weird cos I feel for the most part pretty damn accepted here at school, but just step out---My friend Cristina and I went to a poetry open mic and some guy was reading pretty assholic poetry about how brave and manly he is not to care about feminism, to have his wife swallow, to call fags fags cos he'll be ahead of the curve, etc---I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt cos yknow, poetry and free speech and all, but it was a really bad scene to walk into. In a sort of protest I read 3 poems, all of which directly or indirectly talked about queerness and dyke love and Cristina later told me she was actually *afraid* while I was reading cos she realized that it's not always safe. Wow, I'm babbling. Let's write email instead. :)

[dogeeseseegod.livejournal.com]

"Vassar Straight." hahahahaha. oh god, the stereotypes!! I'd say I'm pretty confident in my attraction to both genders. I would be more confident about my "bisexuality" if I'd ever actually acted on anything with a girl. but that's okaaaay. what I meant to say was, it's interesting that you see me as "girly", while Allon's word for him and myself is "androgenous." femme, dyke, straight, bi, girly, androgenous... not as mutually-exclusive as they seem, it seems. ;)

my endearingly butch, pink-filtered dyke.... yes... you both defy and play up all the stereotypes, thereby making them really interesting, dual-sided topics of discussion. exxxcellent.